Flashback wrote:
And how did the republicans for for the conspiracy? Holder is guilty, busted by his own lies, like the one that said his predeccessor under bush started and/or was briefed in on the program started under holder. You're about a week behind in the facts. You've fallen into the kool-aid vat agian.
That's funny, Fast and Furious was part of “Project Gunrunner” that piloted in 2005 and officially got going nationally in 2006. F&F was the SECOND “gunwalking” operation that Project Gunrunner is known for conducting. “Operation Wide Receiver” was a program started in 2006 that did the same thing as Fast and Furious, ALLOW straw buyers to buy guns and the ATF would try to catch the bad buys later. Some guns where lost in Mexico during that operation and NO arrests where made under the Bush Admin.Operation Wide Receiver wrote:
Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.[22] These included AR-15s, semi-automatic AK-pattern rifles, and Colt .38s. The vast majority of the guns were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.[7][23][25]
At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded.
The initial meeting between the agencies to kick off F&F did NOT even include Holder, and the high level people at that meeting NEVER SUGGESTED USING GUNWALKING as a tactic. The decision to implement gunwalking was later done by the same people who did it under Op. Wide Receiver.Operation Fast and Furious wrote:
On October 26, 2009, a teleconference was held at the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. to discuss U.S. strategy for combating Mexican drug cartels. Participating in the meeting were Deputy Attorney General David W. Ogden, Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer, ATF Director Kenneth E. Melson, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) Administrator Michele Leonhart, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation Robert Mueller and the top federal prosecutors in the Southwestern border states. They decided on a strategy to identify and eliminate entire arms trafficking networks rather than low-level buyers.[3][27][28] Those at the meeting did not suggest using the "gunwalking" tactic, but ATF supervisors would soon use it in an attempt to achieve the desired goals.[29]
Operation Fast and Furious wrote:
The strategy of targeting high-level individuals, which was already ATF policy, would be implemented by Bill Newell, special agent in charge of ATF's Phoenix field division. In order to accomplish it, the office decided to use "gunwalking" as laid out in a January 2010 briefing paper. This was said to be allowed under ATF regulations and given legal backing by U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona Dennis K. Burke. It was additionally approved and funded by a Justice Department task force.
So DOJ just approved the ideas the Phoenix field division had about using gunwalking, which was allowed under ATF regulations, in the operation to catch the bad guys.
It don't sound like Eric Holder OR obama came up with that idea, it's clear it was a decision made by the professionals at ATF and the only bad thing the administration did was believe the special agents that it was a good idea and would work in combating gunrunning on the border. Flashback wrote:
This wasn't political until the DoJ refused and continues to refuse to turn over the documents that were asked for. Simple as that. Refusal to do so makes Holder a criminal according to the laws of our country. You don't even believe your own guy when he retracted his statement that his predecessor knew about this program and restated that his predecessor DIDN'T know about the program.
Again, Holder was referring to Project Gunrunner, which the Bush administration STARTED, and he clarified that they didn't know about the specific F&F operation of course, it started under Obama. But the fact remains, Project Gunrunner and gunwalking first started under Bush. Also, the only thing this is, is political. A way for Republicans to twist the truth in order to make the Obama Administration look bad for political gain, otherwise there wouldn't have even been a congressional inquiry to find some kind of conspiracy by the Obama Administration to take away peoples guns.
And it is funny you would say that refusal to turn over documents is a crime after you said this:Flashback wrote:
Your bush number of 291, try 6 to be accurate (2 of which weren't done by bush), is way off and dems were bitching every time, so why not now? Oh, and the Supreme Court has ruled that Executive Privilege is an element of the separation of powers of our government and therefore perfectly legal.
So which is it, just a crime when democrats invoke Executive Privilege? Or are you just a day behind on your own statement? Sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gunrunnerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandalhttp://www.atf.gov/publications/factshe ... unner.html Admit it, this was a hair brained decision made at the Phoenix field division and had nothing to do with Eric Holder or the President except they trusted the ATF and phoenix office that it was a good tactic to use in combating gunrunning.
Admit that the president and his administration isn't conducting a conspriacy to take away American citizens guns. Admit the whole gunwalking idea was an idea they never came up with, and, by the way, NEITHER did the BUSH administraton, they too trusted the Law Enforcement Agencies that it was a good idea. 
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